Latest Ballpark Village news - Part II

In a follow-up to our previous post (Latest Ballpark Village news - Part I) we discuss this development in more detail, including similar projects completed recently by the developers which may give us an idea of what to expect here in Dayton...

Vaibbhav Gupta is the president of Mandalay Sports Real Estate Group and is overseeing what is tenatively being called Ballpark Village.  Prior to joining Mandalay, Gupta apparently worked with Ellman Cos on Westgate City Center - an entertainment and mixed use development adjacent to Jobing.com Arena and University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale, AZ.  Though development companies tend to form quasi-partnerships with their tenants (what you find at The Greene you will likely find at Easton, etc.), it was Gupta's former company that developed Westgate, so looking at their tenants is probably not a good indicator of who we might see open up at Ballpark Village.  Still, if you check out their site you can get a feel for what we might expect (albeit on a smaller scale) here in Dayton.  It appears that Westgate is slated to open some time this year, which is good since University of Phoenix Stadium is hosting both the Fiesta Bowl and SuperBowl in 2008).

One project that Mandalay IS involved with is Metro World Centre between Detroit and Ann Arbor.  The project is adjacent to another sports anchor, but instead of baseball this one is horse racing - Michigan Downs.  Info on this is shaky at best, so if you know more about this development please let us know.  It is interesting that Bear Creek Capital is also involved with Metro World Centre.  We're not sure of a completion date on this, but I've read one source that said Michigan Downs could open in 2009.

So what will make Ballpark Village different than The Greene?  That is the question on many minds here in Dayton.  While some of you question why yet another retail and restaurant development is being planned for an apparently oversaturated market, let's just assume for a second that the area can support it without poaching customers from existing businesses (it makes things much more interesting than just complaining about it).  Here is what I think would work at Ballpark Village...

For being a town without a major league team, Dayton is crazy about sports.  And while The Greene does have a couple of restaurants with t.v.'s, there is nothing there that is really that sports-related.  (don't say Golds Gym - that isn't sports, it is exercise..big difference!)  In fact, other than a handful of scattered sports-themed bars, the region really does not have a major sports-themed development.  Ballpark Village and its location near Fifth Third Field makes it a no-brainer.  Think big and imagine it anchored by places like ESPN Zone.  Perhaps a restaurant like Sluggers in Chicago that has batting cages and is kid-friendly.  How about a "beach" bar & grill overlooking the river with a couple of sand volleyball courts.  Yes, I said beach bar - you don't need an ocean (though wouldn't THAT be nice!), you only need the ambiance and attitude.  Include a FREE sports museum that highlights Dayton's amazingly unknown sports history (yes, the first NFL game was played here in Dayton!)  Add a trolley that goes between Ballpark Village, The Cannery and the Oregon District so that these areas are somewhat connected.  Throw in a high-class pool hall and a couple of dance clubs, and you end up with something that is NOT the Greene. 

Ok, enough of my ideas - let's hear yours...

Comments

[Brad French]

How about a Hard Rock Cafe? Another dreaded chain, true. But it would be a huge draw, and could even incorporate some Dayton-specific music history stuff (which I've heard Dayton has a lot of). ESPN Zone would also be cool. If this development could have a few nationally-known, "cool" places like these, we would even attract visitors from Cincy, C-Bus, and beyond. I'm all for mixing in some local, independent stuff, but it's gotta have AT LEAST one place that really has that "wow factor" as soon as you hear about it.

[Bill Pote]

Brad - that is good point and great idea. I agree that though in a perfect world we'd have nothing but totally successful independent businesses, we do need a few big name places to help draw people. Another possible venue type is a true live music venue - one that can fit a thousand or so people in it but keeps the intimate feel. Think House of Blues. Like ESPN Zone, it isn't likely that Dayton is a big enough city for these types of places, but you never know...

We need places here that remind you that you are in "the city" as opposed to a suburban shopping mall.

[Bryan]

I'll have to ponder what might work at BPV. But I can state with some certainty what won't work: a traditional "mall" or any kind of development intended to pull shoppers out of our existing malls and instead go downtown to shop. It just isn't going to happen. Something decidedly urban, very different and very not cookie-cutter. A Hard Rock cafe? No way! Even over-the-hill fogies like me won't go there. I would also suggest putting office space there (with cheap parking) so that downtown businesses looking for new space will have an alternative to moving to Beavercreek. I do think that movie theaters, if there is free, safe parking attached, can make it downtown.

[metromark]

I heard Dan Edwards on WDTN say that the 1895-era Requarth Lumber Co. main building would be converted into condos and office space. That's the first time anything's been mentioned on the subject. If it's true, that's good news. Has anyone else heard anything about saving and reusing this historic building?

[Bill Pote]

metromark - yes I saw that on WDTN as well. I haven't heard anything about it so I don't know if there is any truth to it. I am guessing that the developers won't give much thought to it until the project gets the green light. I for one would be very disappointed if they tore down the Requarth building - it has a character and history that they could never duplicate. Hopefully the planners for the development have an appreciation for such things. Again, it is things like the Requarth building that make the project different than the sterile Greene.

[Phillip Ranly]

I'm with you Bryan. There should be a very limited amount of retail at this stage. Downtown can't support it, that's why all the department stores left. It's too early in the game to be thinking something like that could work. Even Newport on the Levee along the Ohio River isn't doing too well, retail-wise. But the restaurants, bars, aquarium, and movie theater are doing great. It seems like these sort of developments just become entertainment venues in people's minds whether the retail is there or not. I could see a book store though.

I'm also in agreement that 100% local restaurants/bars won't pan out. It'd certainly be nice though! This place could really work though, especially before and after the Dragons play. BPV would be a great way to get people down there that don't have tickets. They could watch it on a big screen at a killer sports bar right next to the stadium.

Some office space is smart because it gives the restaurants a touch more business during lunch and keeps people out and about all day long—after all it is being planned as a 24/7 development! And as always, I'd like to see some more housing downtown. That's just a no-brainer.

[Jeff]

The Westgate development in Phoenix is pretty interesting site planning. It looks like they use an Easton-type concept (theatres on one end, ending the axis of a retail "street"), but anchor it with a big arena. I don't think I've seen a arena incorporated into a retail/commercial complex like that before, especially in a suburban location. Pretty innovative.

To make Ballpark Villiage "different", think a smaller version of Universal Citywalk.

Take a look a this tenant mix at Citywalk. It is as much dining and entertainment as retail. I also notice they have a bowling alley.

http://www.citywalkhollywood.com/dining_compare.html

...to make this true mixed use add some housing. Having a heavy entertainment mix could solve the 5th Street problem that plagues the Oregon: make Ballpark Village the nightlife center for Dayton, and 5th more for quieter uses like proffessional offices, low key retail, and the occasional restaurant.

Also, good to hear that the old Requarth building is going to be incorporated into this. I've seen that done in San Francisco, with the Cannery, where there is a mix of old and new in a shopping/food place.